The Next IoT Frontier: Satellite Meets Cellular

So welcome to IoT leaders podcast. With me, your host, Nick Earle, the CEO of Eseye. And the reason, if you're watching this on YouTube, the reason I've got a picture of planet Earth behind me is I thought that was the most appropriate background for today's subject. So, today's guest, is from a very exciting company called Satelliot. Satelliot, one of, the new, satellite companies that are doing, nontrrestrial networks, and in low Earth orbit, so LEO as it's known. They actually have satellites up in the sky now. They have paying customers, and we just announced a partnership with them so that our solution, our, Infiniti platform, our switch can actually switch between cellular choice and, satellite choice, because now with the new standards, the GSMA standards, which you'll hear about the podcast, we now can actually use the same modem, with new sock with with new firmware in the modem to connect either to cellular or to satellite. And that is a huge breakthrough, which suddenly makes global ubiquitous connectivity, which is what, certainly, we're all about, even bigger. And you hear a lot here about use cases and technology and, differences between the different, models that are out there. It's very, informative podcast. The guest is Marco Guadalupe. He is the, CTO, chief technical officer of Satelliette. And, he's as you'll hear, he's he's very knowledgeable, very enthusiastic. And, also, talking about what's coming next, the the different standards, the path to six g, what six g is, how satellite solves the problem of IoT connectivity in rural air areas, case study of, shipping containers with junk customer we already have, obviously, out on the oceans. I mean, a a a whole new exciting world, opening up, in front of us now. The satellites are actually flying above our heads. So with that, without further ado, let's, get started, and let's hear from Marco Guadalupe, the CTO of Satelliet. So, Marco, welcome to the IoT leaders podcast. Nice to meet you. Nice to meet you. Thank you very much to invite us. Here we are. Very welcome. So for our, listeners and our viewers, because, people listen to it on devices, but it also goes out on YouTube. Maybe, you we could just start off by, you introducing yourself and, indeed, the company, Satelliette, which is, very exciting. So, yeah, it's sort of who you are, what your role is, and a little bit about Satelliette. Thank you. Thank you very much. My name is Marco Guadalupe. I'm the CTO and cofounder of Satello, chief technology officer. Basically, what, what we need in Satello is, very easy. At the end, there is innovation in how we want to connect, how we want to offer coverage. But what we are doing is extending the coverage of mobile operator that everybody knows, that are in the city, are in also rural area. But when the density of population drop or we are in the middle of the ocean or we are in very rural area, what's happened that we don't have coverage? So we decided to extend their coverage using satellite in low orbit. We can talk later about about that. Right. So, yeah. So let's get some of the key acronyms, out out of the way, for people because I think if it's okay, I'd like to go into that point about low orbit now if if we can because there's lots of different systems out there. There's a lot of companies making a lot of claims. But you, you're totally as I understand it, you're totally focused on, the phrases LEO versus GEO. So low Earth orbiting, satellites. And and there are some technical reasons why you think that's really, really important. So maybe maybe you could just go straight into that. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Until now, we was used to, for example, watching TV connected to an antenna, and sometimes this antenna is connected to a satellite. We have a dish in our houses receiving signal from a satellite that is very far from from the Earth. It is positionating in thirty six thousand kilometer, and this is very, very efficient to offer broadcast services. Okay? Because these satellites are positionated in an orbit, it's called orbit, that because the movement of the earth and the movement of the satellite, it seems to us that it's always in the same position. This is called geostationary satellite. We use this satellite during many, many years for, TV, for broadcast TV. So we are covering a specific part of the of the globe, for example, Europe, for example, Africa. Then in the past, people starting offering Internet access through this satellite. But what happened? When we want to go further to this approach because we want to connect object, Internet of things, like our case, we want to connect small devices to do a lot of use cases. We'll see later. These small devices maybe are on the floor, maybe are beyond the a rock, beyond a tree, maybe are on on the move. So the position of these devices compared to the satellite is continually changing. What happened with GEO? You have to look to the equator where these satellites are positioned. The position of all these satellite is on the equator line that allow us to have this relative position fixed. But when we move is or we are in different latitude of the globe or we are in a container, for example, it's difficult to point our, element that we want to connect exactly to the satellite. So envision this situation, we decided to modify the approach, and we choose satellite that fly at a different orbit. That is called low orbit. It means a satellite that can fly between, few thousand kilometer until two thousand kilometer. Few hundred kilometer to two thousand kilometer. Right. For example, in our case, we decide to fly our satellite at five hundred kilometer. So if we have, for example, a cow connected, it depend where the cow is, there is no visibility to the equator. But the satellite is moving around the earth. Because at this, at this altitude, satellite move at seven point five kilometer per second very quickly. So maybe the cow is behind the tree, behind the rock, behind the house, but when the satellite move, in some moment, we can see the object. We can establish this direct visual between the satellite and the element that we want to connect. So sense to LEO approach, we can increase the probability to establish connection. And then because we are very near the Earth, we can increase the energy. So the power of the signal that we receive. So that concept of out of coverage can be solved within this, in this way. And, presumably, that that was a great explanation with with the cow. Thank you. Presumably and we'll get into use cases later on. In fact, we already have a common customer. We'll we'll talk about that, later on. But, presumably, the the fact that you are near the Earth, you talked about the energy, but also the latency is less. Yes. You've got to take the signal. You've gotta go, up and down or or down and up, actually. So so this latent you must have a latency advantage as well by using this approach. Yes. Yeah. Yes. Latency is reduced to few milliseconds compared to Geosatellite. So that's to to go to Geosatellite and coming back. We are around seven seven hundred milliseconds, seven hundred milliseconds. In geo, we can stay around. In LEO, we can stay around eighty milliseconds, fifty milliseconds, seventy milliseconds. We can reduce a lot, and we can we can reach twenty milliseconds too. It's depend of how you approach the network, but, yes, you can you can reduce a lot. It's a matter of millisecond, few milliseconds because we are flying at five hundred, six hundred kilometers. So there is a huge difference compared to thirty thousand kilometer, and then you have to go and coming back. Okay. So there is a big advantage, for example, to, to grow to browse Internet. So for broadband access, working with, satellite flight LEO, you'll use a lot and the perception of the service for the user improve a lot because the latency is a key element in this in this connectivity. Excellent. Now I've no doubt, a lot of people, will will sort of be in their mind, and they'll say, okay. So what about Starlink? People always say, well, okay. But it sounds like Starlink. But from my perspective, actually, it it it it that's also low Earth orbiting. But but Starlink, there are some really key differences. I mean, I think that, one in particular, Starlink is very much aimed at at the consumer, side, and that's the big market, rural consumer broadband access. And secondly, and you're very much, we're talking today about IoT, and we'll get back to that. And, also, Starlink is, there's a whole issue of open versus, proprietary standards, isn't there? Yes. Yes. Yes. Starlink well, first of all, Starlink is a is a broadband service from LEO that improved the the latency. That's, that's a key point. It's a broadband. Now they are talking about, connecting, smartphone. But in any case, always is a proprietary solution. Okay? The approach that Starlink chose was proprietary solution. So they've their technology is owned by them, is, implemented by them. They know the details, and there is a a level of captivity, for the customer. There is a level of technology lock in for the customer. Our approach is different. We join, an organization called ZGPP that is in charge of, telecommunication protocol, mobile telecommunication protocol with the idea to bring, mobile protocol with our open standard to space. In this approach, supported also by European Space Agency and many other organization in the world, the architecto, the protocol, the futures involved in this communication are totally open, are totally new by all the players. So an end customer can be a company, can be an enterprise, can be a government, can be a residential user, can be connected to a network in some way that if we want to decide to change the operator because a new service, because a new product, he can do that without changing the terminal device. So the end user is free. You are, protecting your investment when you buy your your device. And the approach is always based not on my protocol is better. Your protocol is worse. No. The differentiation is in the service. So all the ecosystem is focused on offering the best service to the end user and not competing with I have the best protocol. I have this device. No. Device is open. Everybody can build the devices that can support this non terrestrial network communication based on mobile protocols. And then the operator, like Satayud, is there to offer this service. I offer this service, this characteristic, and that price so the end user can choose. When you work in, in all the proprietary solution like Starlink, Iridium, and so on, What we are doing is a is a lock in. You buy a device that only work with that, that company. There is activity. The customer has to accept any rules that the operator impose. So is is is breaking these architecture on on the rest of the network is normal. Everybody has a phone. If you want to change the operator because there is a new service, you do that. It's it's normal approach. Why we don't do that also in space? So that was the approach of Satalia from the first name. And and and and I think that is a really key point. So let's go a little bit deeper. You mentioned, nontrestsial networks or NTN, as it's known in the in the industry standard. And and I'll come back to the fact that we, as SI, were about to in fact, by the time this podcast goes out, we probably have already had our press announcement out, and I'll come back to, what that's about about the alliance between the two companies. But but but the standard, as I understand it, is is is all is also linked to five g, isn't it? It it's the it's the five g NTN narrowband IoT protocol. Yeah. And and Yeah. That standard is really important as you as you say. It's not proprietary. It's not a lock in. So maybe and I and I believe you've been involved in, committees and etcetera on on that. Yes. So maybe a little bit explanation, because people will will, they'll be planning for five g. The operators will be planning for five g. The customers will be looking at at use cases. We know there are major issues to do with narrowband IoT, amongst operators just because the, the particularly in a and I've talked about this on previous, podcasts. The the the model for roaming in cellular IoT is that the the person you roam onto only gets twenty percent of the revenue that you get. And the problem is with narrowband, the unicosts are very, very low, which means you're getting twenty percent of a a really low number. So a lot of people are saying I can't although, technically, I can do narrowband, I can't afford to do narrowband from my cell tower infrastructure, my land based, my my my terrestrial network as opposed to my non terrestrial network. Whereas from your perspective, the idea of having narrowband, IoT globally, and linked to five g, and there's a lot of issues to do with the the billing such as the the the billing charging evolution standard, which is the new new billing standard for five g. That's all you're building it all around those open standards, aren't you? Yes. Yes. Yes. That's that's that's true, and that's the beauty to work into three GBP. First of all, there are many building blocks of the system that already existed. I don't have to to think on on the concept of how to intake authenticate the device because there is a SIM card. That's part of the standard. This is the five g standard. The four g standard was on SIM card. I want to extend coverage of mobile operator, so I don't have to think on how to create this interface. No. Because there is a roaming interface already well defined. So taking these elements, exactly, we can extend the coverage all around the globe. We can reduce the cost of doing this roaming thanks to the new approach important proposed by by GSMA. So an operator that has a MD IoT service on the ground can go beyond its region thanks to satellite and avoiding, extra cost of the roaming because we are doing exactly the same interface that we see in terrestrial network with a simple approach because it's it's IoT. So the information we have to interchange is very simple. Our core network, that is a standard mobile core network, talk specific protocol to that. There is in the middle a transport network for clearing, clean it's called clearing house for for interconnection between mobile operator, and everything is straightforward. There is no extra cost on that. For the mobile operator, it's a a new revenue stream. I mean, sensor can be connected beyond my network. Okay. Welcome. There is an income. Okay. Perfect. And they don't have to invest anything. So it's, it's, it's quite good. And the cost of roaming is, reduced to almost nothing because the integration is so simple based on few files that you have to move up and down. There there is no motivation to block this extension of your network. And we should say, if it's not obvious, but we should specifically state that that it's not theoretical. I mean, you have recently launched satellites. I mean, these satellites are in air now, and you have customers many customers will get on to that. But but you have, you have, piggybacked on, as I understand it, one of, one of mister Musk's rockets, and you have satellites in the air right now. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. August sixteen, we launched, the first orbital plane for a commercial implementation, with four satellite. It was a very, very nice mission. We bring the satellite to to Germany, to Berlin, where we integrate the satellite inside the box that is called the Deployer, and then we move the Deployer to to California, to this space port of Vandenberg. And we installed these boxes, these Deployer inside, rocket Falcon Falcon nine ready to be launched. And finally, August sixteen, satellite reached the, six almost six hundred kilometer. They were deployed in two phases. The first phase, two satellite, and then after, one minute and something, the other second second and third and fourth satellite. So we we saw our satellite flying around around the earth in two groups, and, day by day, they start moving. Our satellite has, have a propulsion system. So the idea is to face is to move this satellite around the globe in one orbit, ninety degree relative position between each of them. And that's configuration of the orbit and that's configuration of the constellation, crossing North Pole and South Pole every ninety minutes, give us the possibility to offer minimum one message per day all around the globe. It's a five g MB IoT non terrestrial network protocol. This is based on release seventeen of of the standard. On the ground, we have all the ground system to establish the connection to the mobile operator. The mission control center that is controlling, looking, and they are keeping the satellite every day, with different connection. These satellites are connected to the ground through a a bunch of ground station all around the globe that we can use to establish bidirectional connection with the satellite, to skip the satellite, to control the flight, to avoid collision. That's one of the important point today. To avoid collision, you have leverage in space. The proportions system allow us to move the satellite if needed. And finally, to offer the service. So we have to move up and down IoT messaging from our customer and mobile that are the mobile operator and the end user that are customer or mobile operator. K. So everything is ready to be commercial January twenty twenty five as we always said, and, this is a reality. Okay? It's not a a protocol in a paper. This is a real implementation of of the system with all the element included. So just coming back to our cow, if I may, I had an image as you were talking. The re the way you can connect to that cow wherever he or she is, is, you have the the the four the four satellites currently, obviously, a lot more in the future, but four four satellites currently, they're as you said, they're ninety degrees to each other going over the north and the south poles. So it's like I have this image of, like, almost chopping an orange into four parts. But Yes. You got the rotation of the Earth as well. So the combination of those those four slices and the the fact that the Earth is rotating gives you you touch every bit of territory globally, including the ocean. Exactly. I'd like to add in the case study, including the oceans once a day. So right now, you can definitely do once a day communication. Yes. Minimum once a day. Minimum once a day. And it's only gonna get get better as as as it scales. So what I what I'd like to do now that we've established that was a very great explanation. Thank you. We we talk a little bit about, the the announcement that, as I say, it could be out already by the time the podcast launches. But and as to why we did it, our regular listeners will know that I'm always mentioning the fact that we our approach is we call it the star alliance. And we're actually talking the airline analogy, not the space analogy, but the Star Alliance model where we have, sixteen, operators that we have, done different technical interconnects to. But, essentially, what it means is our switch, our network switch in in our cloud platform, Infiniti, can do not only roaming, so we get access to all the roaming agreements for those sixteen operators. So we have seven hundred roaming well, it's probably seven hundred and eighty or something roaming agreements. But we also can do what's called federated localization, so we can localize the connection as well as as well as, Rome. So, essentially, what that is is agnos we're agnostic to the operator. So we have a single eSIM. We don't have a dog in the fight. We're agnostic to the operator, which gives the most choice, the most coverage, and the most, assurance that you're not gonna get disconnected. But what we're we're saying now in terms of the next phase of our strategy is we want to move to be agnostic to the rats, the radio access type. And we can also already do Wi Fi, for instance, in the device like we do with vending machines if if there's if you're in a store and the store Wi Fi is good enough, then use Wi Fi. But we couldn't cover, re rural areas, and we couldn't where there's just the economic model. It doesn't make sense to put the towers up. And we couldn't cover, obviously, the ocean unless you're very, very close to the port. And there's a huge market for for tracking. So from our strategy, what we see is we want to be agnostic to the operator, but we also want to be agnostic to the device. And the the the thing that's excuse me, to the rat within a single device. And the thing that has enabled this for both of us, of course, is this release seventeen, standard, which I find that most people don't know what it is. If I say, well, we can use release seventeen, it it's it it's not a snappily named thing. It's a Mhmm. Obviously it's obviously come from telecom. Yes. To have a name like that. To have a name. But but, essentially, I think the the simple guide is that it it is essentially means your existing cellular modem in your device, which as you say, could be a phone, but actually in in the IoT world is most often not a phone. It's a device with a cellular modem in can now, actually connect, the buyer, our switch in this case with the announcement that we're making to your satellites, which suddenly means that if you have intelligence in the device, you can actually make a choice between whether you want to use satellite or cellular. We have applications that or smart connect that runs the device. You can say, if satellite is available and certain other parameters, it could be the latency or or whatever, then use it. Or if if cellular is available, then pick an operator that has these capabilities. Yes. Suddenly, you get this opportunity for what we've all been talking about for a while of of massive IoT, which it it means that you have more and more choices to every device regardless of where that device is. And so I think we're the two companies are coming at this together with a common belief based on industry standards and agnostic choice. And and and that's that's the way we see the world. Yes. So, yes. Yes. It's it's it's true. And the advantage to have a standard, at the end, you want to be agnostic to the rat, and you want to have a a very cost effective device. Okay? So if you can have a minimum number of radio technology inside the device, you can control the cost of the device. You can reduce the cost of the device. If for every RAT, you need to to install a different radio chain in your device, your price is increasing. Okay? So nowadays, what we saw until a few years ago was proprietary solution to connect by satellite. Satellite is not something that appear yesterday. Satellite exists during the last forty forty years. Okay? But connectivity was expensive because it was proprietary. The point here is to break the this barrier to to reduce the cost. And to reduce the cost, we need massive adoption. If we join use cases by satellite with the use cases for terrestrial network using the same radio, what we are doing is increasing the market of the device, so reducing the cost of the device. In a seamless way, we move between different rat at the same device to one chain, one protocol, one fieldwork, one software, and that is, that scale. And and that is the other big subject I wanted to, refer to. I think it opens the door for us to talk about case studies, but but but when I talk to people about satellite brochures, it's the same for you, everybody they say, oh, yes, but expensive. And, as you say, if you are a proprietary model with with a with a proprietary receiver, proprietary base stations, then, yeah, your capital cost is expensive and you really have to massively scale. But but the moment you say, well, it's you've already got the device. You you've got it's software. It's firmware inside your IoT device. Yeah. Then then you suddenly have an addressable market of of of of of of billions and billions of devices without the need to to spend six hundred dollars on a dish or something like that. Yes. Let let's talk about case studies. And and I'm gonna go straight into one that's on your website. It's on our website. And and, keen listeners of this, podcast, IoT leaders, may well remember that we did a podcast with a company called t forty two out of, Israel. And t forty two, do, one of the one of their verticals that they go after, their device company, a lot of device expertise, a very smart Israeli engineers. And one of the things that they do is that they, are trying to solve the problem of, not just tracking containers while they're at sea, but also, there's a some amazing statistics that that, there's there's something like fifty billion of, losses, from containers every year, which is either down to theft or the physical conditions. So I'm not right. It gets too hot in the container. Because by the time they depart and by the time they get there, they're basically out to each container is not connected. And so if it takes twelve days to get somewhere and you're carrying food or whatever, it could get hot. They could somebody could break open the lock on a container while they're on the ship. They could tamper, with it. There could be, a container could fall off. Container could get stolen. It could be somebody it could be on another boat, but you just you know nothing about it until it gets to the other end. And ninety nine percent of the containers in the world are not tracked today. It's a massive, massive, opportunity. And, they've they've created this smart lock, which which creates an alert if there's a tamper, and they also will allow you to track the containers. And for instance, when you take them off the boat and you put them, on the ground at the port ports are big because they need space to put hundreds of thousands of containers. It's not just the boats that are big. The ports have to be big because they have to put containers on the ground. And then the lorries have to come in and they have to find the containers and put them on the lorry. I mean, the logistics, typically, ports are at the the hearts of cities, which is massively expensive real estate. So all the number the opportunity for ROI here is huge. With that sort of background info, you you they're one of your customers, aren't you? You're enabling them to to connect while at sea, essentially. Yes. Yes. Yes. It's it's it's true. Container container is a very important I mean, the logistic as it is, and container in concrete case is a is a very important market. It's a very big business, where logistic I mean, logistic information is everything. Okay? And when you have massive connectivity I mean, you are connecting all your containers, You can create value on that data. It's not only what is the container. No. No. After that, you can post process the information of all your container, and you can identify whether you have a lack or you have a problem. So thanks to cloud processing the cloud, thanks to artificial intelligence algorithm that is are learning on that data, so you need a lot of data, you can improve your process. You can establish a different management of that container that is for for the company is an active, asset. So you know today what you can do with the container, but you don't know what you can do tomorrow with all the information that you can bring from the container. K? There is a there is a gap to there that if you have a sensor at the right price, you have the connectivity at the right price and the right availability, you can exploit all this information to create new revenue stream, to reduce cost, to create new experience for your end user at the end who is buying that container, who is receiving the the the the goods inside the container. This experience, if I buy something and took one month to arrive, is a problem. Right? But if I can track, I feel better. Right? This happen every day when you buy something in the city and somebody bring to you. So this information create also a new experience for the end user. All these aspects can be explored tomorrow, and the t forty two is a is a good example is a good example. This sensor need connectivity. You don't care which one, but you need connectivity. NTN, non terrestrial network, three GPP, non terrestrial network, give us this possibility. And if you have GEO, LEO, NEO, any kind of orbit, you can improve the probability to connect the sensor, to connect this tracker, and have all the information you need, when you need, anytime, anywhere, any object. That's the approach. And and and that's the ocean, which I think I'm right is two thirds of the world's surface, but I I might be wrong. But, and, you know, ninety nine percent of of containers not connected today, so totally on top market. But also we talk about rural areas where I said, you know, it's not rural, IoT for, it's a big issue. I mean, if you're tracking a a truck that's driving across the US, Large parts of the US have no signal. It's just not economic to have a land based infrastructure, land based network, is it? Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. That's that's true. You know, totally for tracking objects to track, the asset. No. There is there are other other use cases where it's not economically feasible to deploy land and network. Okay? For example, agriculture. Agriculture is a is a also a very important, business. With IoT, for example, you can reduce thirty, forty percent of water consumption Yeah. In, in in smart agriculture. Okay? But you need information. What we did, a couple of years ago, we opened a link in our web page to invite company that want to test the technology, and, we we identify use cases from very, very different vertical. It's incredible. There are use cases that you cannot believe. What yes. Because when you have a need, you have an idea, and you create solution. And if you don't have that that need, it's difficult. No? But Centennial is so and application. No. We are it's multi agriculture, but what we are looking is the size of the fluid. So in each tree, we during the day, during the week, during the months, we are sizing the fluid. We are measuring the diameter of the apple, for example. Wow. What? Not a master a matter of, temperature and soil moisture. No. No. No. No. K. There is water. The temperature is right, but what happened to the apple? We want to know what happened to the apple. So it's a sensor that just take the sight of the apple. No? It's it's good. But in one tree, in every tree, you need to know the size of the apple in every tree. You know? It's, it's incredible. So in this web page, people can join the the experience, can join, can ask for a proof of concept, can, can ask her to test the service, and we saw application in a vertical. In the middle of the ocean, in, in the middle of the land, the pipeline, for example, for water transport, and, soil no. Sorry. Sun sun system. No. For example, for energy. So you have, infrastructure in the middle of web for energy wind based on sun. So you have a pipe to transport these these energy. You you have to monitor all these infrastructure. Then you have environmental. Environmental is is not a business as it is, but controlling the environmental is important for other company because there are side effect. If we have a fast flooding, we have to know in advance. But if we see that, water container in the mountain are empty and we are during the summer, there is a risk for for for a fire. We have to be prepared. So why we don't control water tank in the middle nowhere? What we do today? We took a car. We take a car and check what's happening in every mountain. It's incredible. There's no coverage. You know? Of course, there is no coverage there. So all these use cases associated to environmental has an impact on the society with big, impact when something happen. So disaster can be, you can be prepared before the disaster and after the disaster could work. Again, satellite connectivity give you to stay beyond the land of network. After disaster, the first network we lose is power, intercommunication, and communication later. All these three infrastructure are lost. So helicopters, of course, we have helicopters. We have satellite for communication, then we have to find a solution for power. Satellite communication didn't need power on the ground. That's why, satellite are good also for disaster recovery. You know? So if we can connect every smartphone, for example, it's fantastic because every people has a smartphone in the pocket can be connected directly to the satellite. To do that, again, we need the standard solution to avoid captivity based on one company, two company, three company. We need to open the solution to everybody. So use cases are huge. Many use case. Use case that you know today, but tomorrow, when you have the infrastructure, you can create new use cases. So there is an iterative process that can exploit when you have infrastructure. One of the fascinating things about IoT, is the use cases, as you say. And, again, we did an another podcast with a I'm I'm funny enough, I'm gonna come back to cows again. I just realized. But we did a podcast, with a, a a company in the agriculture space. They were actually nominated for a GSMA, IoT project of the year award at Mobile World Congress last year in Barcelona, and, they are trying to, track the health of every cow. And just to recap it, the the biggest killer of cows is BCE, which is, it it's it's basically a a cow pneumonia, and it kills about, I think, twelve or thirteen percent of all cows in a year. And the thing about it is by the time the cow is sick, it's too late. And cows infect other cows. And cows tend to be in rural areas. And what they but you can actually, identify seven days earlier that a cow is sick because it changes its behavior. It doesn't eat and drink as much, and it tends to and, well, initially, it hides in the middle of the herd. And then when it's really sick, it it it goes to the outside of the herd. It it's interesting what animals do. Anyway, so you have to monitor if you can monitor the cow's position and how often they go to the water trough and the feeding trough, you can actually use analytics to say, well and they all have a tag on with the number. You know, cow number three hundred and forty two is exhibiting symptoms. So intercept that cow even though it looks perfectly healthy to the human eye. Because as you said, it's people. It's people who go into forests. It's people who go and check on on electricity transformers, and it's it's it they're cowboys. I mean, that's why they're called cowboys. It's people on horses who are paid to look at cows. Yes. And so they don't spend all the time rounding them up. They spend most of the time just looking at them. And and so, you can then do that with Bluetooth and whatever, on the water trough, but but you have to get the data from the the field out. And if you're in rural Montana and there's no cellular phone signal, it it just stops there. So the use cases are phenomenal, and I think it comes back to what we said is that you ain't seen nothing yet in effect on IoT versus massive IoT. There are the moment you take these barriers down with an open interoperable solution which has choice on on on the rack type, then we will see a massive explosion in IoT, which brings me to perhaps the last question. I mean, I guess it's what's next. We've talked about the fact that what's next is no shortage of use cases. We're at the sort of one message a day, so it's not every use case. Right now, I mean, it's not video, but technology advances all the time. So from your point of view, you know, your business, you you've you've you've you've launched satellites. You you're now commercial. You've got lots of customers to see from your website. We've got our partnership where we can now go into satellite multi rat, and we have hundreds of customers, millions of devices, all of which could use this service. Can you say to the extent you can say, can you give some glimpse in as to what the vision is, what, for Sotelier going forward? Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. First of all, we have to consider how to grow the infrastructure. So we need more supply in space for sure to intensify the number of message per day, the number of messages specific area, for example. So this is the first orbital plane. It's a minimum workable solution to have something periodic, to cover, all the globe. We have to add more orbital plane, more satellite orbital plane. In parallel, we have to push for the technology. So we are working a lot. We are investing a lot in the standard. Release seventeen was frozen in, twenty twenty two, June twenty twenty two. This year, June twenty four was frozen release eighteen that bring a new, enhancement to the protocol. Now we are working on release nineteen and release, and release twenty. All these evolution include, for example, new devices. We are thinking, we are talking about smartphone that can use the same IoT protocol to send us more messaging. Okay? As an SOS messaging, why not? But then we want to send any kind of message. We want to establish phone calls. We want to establish a video call, why not? We want to browse it. So all these evolution are considered. Satellio has a very specific focus on IoT. Today, it's called delay tolerant IoT because we have few message per day. Tomorrow, we wanna approach the near real time. So message every few minutes, and finally, we can walk we we we can we we can stay there. We have the technology to reach real time communication with IoT protocol. The difference is in the size of the market. Maybe you stop in delay tolerant until a few minutes, and we leave the rest for critical messaging to other players. It's it's okay. It's the same sensor. It's the same protocol. It's the same device, and the customer can choose to pay more for real time messaging and pay less for delay tolerant. It's a matter of sizing the pro the product sizing the market and offering the right service to your, to your Mac. So next step, more satellite and more protocol contribution to have a solid solution to cover as much as use cases as possible. And I would say, totally new use cases that we haven't even thought about yet. I mean, you're sort of describing the transition, to you know, you talk about I've been saying release seventeen. I now realize I should now say release eighteen. And then as you say, nineteen, twenty, you're sort of describing in a world where instead of five g being the the big thing, now we're into three d three d networks that we haven't been able to think about and six g. And and suddenly, it's a completely different world with completely new use cases. And the idea of three d networks is and six g is is most people have really struggled just to even wrap their heads around it at the moment. Yes. Yes. Yes. CIG will include in their use cases artificial intelligence from scratch. Network need to use artificial intelligence to be operated, for example, to understand the behavior of the customer, the behavior of the and the user connected to the network. And it's gonna include no terrestrial network from scratch. The five g, it was an evolution. Right? At least six sixteen, it was five g, and then we evolved including non terrestrial network in, in six g. It is release twenty one. We are considering satellite non terrestrial network, hubs, and satellite in different orbit. Drone has a part of the network. It's another place where we can have a ground station sorry, a base station, and this base station is integrated in the core of the network contributing to the connectivity. So maybe we have a user that, at the same time, is connected to different network. And, for example, in the night, you can have a you can switch off terrestrial infrastructure in some places, because you have less traffic. And you can use, for global coverage, satellite connectivity, for example. So on the on the street between, between city, you you don't have base station. You just have not hold the base station, and you just cover all these road, all these, path through and non terrestrial network. You can go over near near the border, near the coast, or two in the middle of the city. Because on the street, during the night, there are no cars, there are no people. So if you are outdoor, you can be connected to this wide bin from space. If you are indoor, you can receive signal from few base station because we just turn off all the others. It's just an example with a big impact on the power consumption of, this kind of network. So there are many, many, use cases we can introduce when everything is interconnected. No? I I I did say all the same example. The public warning system is a way to send an SMS message to to all the population in a specific area. This is possible because it's just a standard. When you have the problem, you do one one two in Europe. In every country in Europe, you do one one two. Also, in North Pole, you do one one two thanks to this global approach based on the standard. So we'll see six g more more more and more new services based on this full integration between all the networks. And and, obviously, I think you're Spanish, Marco, and and I think, that's a very topical subject, early warning systems for consumers, and, climate change. So all of this is extremely, relevant. I think we should wrap it here. I I think this has been one of our more educational, podcasts, so thank you. It's a very, very exciting new area. We've been, saying for a while we wanted to do a podcast on this. And, actually, as a company, wanting to do an alliance, but we were obviously waiting for the for the satellites to get up there. And, now they are, and, we're seeing the use cases, and we've got some customers. I think it's gonna be very exciting going forward, and there's gonna be many, many updates. As you say, as the standard evolves, driven by the, yeah, evolution of the standard, the whole industry will will move in this direction. So so, very exciting. Thank you so much for, Thank you. Being on the podcast, for, being our, our latest partner. We're partners now with each other, and we look forward to exploring, very exciting use cases with with customers, together with, with, Sert Elliott. And I'm sure people who are listening to this, probably even now are tapping away at your website to actually find out a bit more. So thanks again for joining the podcast. Thank you very much. Speak to the audience. Bye. Thanks.