Connected Spaces: Smart Buildings and the Massive IoT Revolution

Hi. This is Nick Earl, CEO of Eseye, and welcome to the IoT Leaders podcast. And today, we're talking smart buildings. We're talking sensors, massive IoT, the ability to get information from anything at all, anything, and, get it through a gateway and consolidate it. And the case studies here, from a partner of ours called Haltian in Finland are really impressive. I think we cover four four, or five, case studies where they are implementing massive IoT already, including one case study where they, they smart enabled a hospital in seven hours. So quite amazing. It uses a very interesting, technology, mesh network called Wirepas, and, as I say, uses gateway. And what's also interesting about this one, I really encourage you to stay listening to the end because the end, we talk about the vision of, multi RAT, so multiple radios and satellite, and the importance of the device and how you do, long tail personalization of connectivity by letting the device choose the network. And that's something that Halteon and and ourselves at SI really share a a a vision of is that ultimately the switch has to be resident within the device. So this is a company that's, really doing very well. He announced it on the podcast, and I didn't know that they just won Toyota. They also do the world's largest warehouse company. So they're doing, smart buildings, right now, and, they're scaling very fast, globally. So I think you're gonna really enjoy this. And so, here we go with, my chat, with Jarno Mayava, who runs product for Haltian, IoT company and a partner of ours in Finland. Here we go. So, Jarno, welcome to the IoT Leaders podcast. Thank you, Nick. Happy to be here. Yeah. I'm and I'm really happy you're here as well because Altium, and we'll get into this, is a very interesting company using some pretty cutting edge technologies to solve big problems, and we'll talk about them in the industry verticals like smart buildings, health care, but you are pretty advanced at the cutting edge. And I know that you've got a vision of, where things are gonna go, and particularly from a device perspective, which, we want to get into as well. So we got quite a bit to talk about. But before we do that, for the, for the listeners, can you just give me a little bit about your background and and why why and when, you joined, Halcyon in Finland? Sure. So, like many of, us Finnish engineers, I I started my career at Nokia. I spent eleven years in in there and in various roles, but also including IoT, which is kind of funny. At the time, it was called machine to machine communication. So I was managing that portfolio of products at Nokia. And and, after that, I joined another Finnish stock listed company, but I moved to the USA and and designed and developed the first satellite terrestrial smartphones. So, essentially, a Windows Mobile smartphone with satellite connectivity. Oh, that's interesting. Yeah. That's where we're that's where that's where we're gonna end up with this story. You actually are saying you started out with that's with with with with with satellites and mobile phones. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. I have a few years of satellite technology background as well, and then we also had several other customers on those for those products. And and, then I moved back to back to Finland and and started selling tactical communications and and high security products to various governmental customers here in Europe. And and, I joined Halteon two years ago, actually, and and I'm heading product management. So I'm responsible of our product portfolio strategy and and roadmaps. And, a lot of people won't be aware of Halteon. Of course, we are your your customer of ours and have have been we're partners, and we have been for quite a while. But, maybe just a a brief overview of, what do Halteon what do Halteon do? Yeah. Halteon is a a smart building company. So we we really focus on smart buildings and provide IoT sensors, gateways, services, tools, applications, including digital twins. So it's, kind of find to end solutions for smart buildings and and, more specifically, we focus on on, corporate offices, offices, hospitals, and also warehouses and logistics. And and and you're not just I know you're speaking to me from the middle of Finland, as you took me. So but but, actually, you're you're you're more than a Finnish company. Right? Yeah. We have been expanding, internationally. So we have, sales offices in in, seven countries at the moment, and we have customers in twenty eight countries. So it's not just a Finnish game. There we go. Alright. So, one area I wanted to, move into is the, as I said in the intro, is the technology. And you, you use a, very effectively use a a a pretty simple technology called Wirepas. Mhmm. So people don't know it. It's w I r e, just p a s, which is also a a Finnish company. But I was looking at their website, and it it really is a cool technology, and out let me you know what? Let me describe what I think it does, and then you can correct me and tell me what it really does. I know you and I know you were at a at a at a conference, a YIPAS conference recently, so you really will correct me. But, in my understanding, YIPAS is a very small light, relatively cheap sensor that can be attached to pretty much anything. But it works on a mesh network, so you start off with a a connectivity hub, for example, and then you put, it's really Metcalfe's law applied. You know, it's the power of a network is the number of nodes squared. But it works in a mesh fashion so that you add another sensor and the sensor says, oh, I can see where the gateway is. But that that new sensor device number two or sensor number two then starts broadcasting. It says, I I can see the gateway. I can see the gateway. So then a third sensor, instead of having to create to the connect to the gateway with a hub and spoke model, which gets very complicated, connects to the second sensor and goes through. But the fourth sensor may say, no. I'm gonna go direct to the gateway. And so you rapidly build up a mesh. And then if there's any issues whatsoever, they can actually change their roots, sort of like the way the packets work on the Internet. But the next fact is you can deploy and scale very, very rapidly and get very high density of sensors in a very small area. Alright. How did I do? That was a good summary. Thank you, Nick. So so well done. Let me just add a couple of things. So so it's really a self forming and self healing network. So if if any of those nodes, disappears, the network, will pick it up. And and, it's really a robust way to to to build IoT solutions in smart buildings. And like you said, it's really scalable, so an ultra high density as well. So, you can put ten thousand devices, small sensor tags on a pallet, for example, and you still get the the message is true. And and Ten thousand ten thousand on a pallet. Yes. Yeah. I think That is has public demonstration of six thousand sensors in one cubic meter. So so and we have exceeded that by that. So so it's it's really powerful. So that's, yeah, that's not only technically pretty cool, but we've been talking, you know, I I very much recognize your point when, you know, I first got involved in in IoT when it was called m to m. In fact, you could arguably go back. It was factory floor automation and things like that even before that, but let's not go back too much. But but but we've been talking about IoT, and fifty million things are gonna get be connected. And then some people say, no. No. No. It's gonna be five hundred billion things. It's gonna be a trillion things. And and we suddenly realize, well, that's broadly called massive IoT. Mhmm. And, you know, the ability to attach a sensor and and have the data transmit reliably to almost anything, any physical thing at all. And the sensor could have its own power source. You can print a battery. You know, it can be tiny and and and and whatever. So we're talking here about the potential for massive IoT, aren't we? Very high volumes of data and of devices, small amounts of data being transmitted. But I guess that's why when you say smart buildings, this is very relevant because you want to track everything in a in a in a smart building or in a hospital or or that sort of use case. Right? Yeah. Exactly. And it's not only, tracking. It's all kind of a smart sensory. So whether it's measuring the temperature or, utilization of the building of, like, people counting or utilization of the meeting rooms, It can be reading the electricity meter. So it's it's not only tracking. It's all kind of IoT censoring, which can be made more scalable and robust through this mesh network. So let's, very exciting, and, we've been talking about it for a long, long time. We're gonna get, of course, into the as we always do on these podcasts, into the practical details of of implementing, IoT. But for the moment, can you bring it to life with maybe, a case study of, of of an example, where you have used it, and, put it inside, let's say, a building, a smart building, or something like that? Yeah. And do you mean, Wirecast in general or or I don't mind. I I know you've got a great you told you're telling me about a great story of, about New York. Mhmm. And so I don't mind. You choose the example just to bring it real, because a lot of people have been talking about this, and we've been to lots of conferences on, smart buildings, smart communities, smart cities. And Yeah. It it Yeah. We're still not really there unless you have the ability to start from scratch and build and build a complete new location, which most people don't. But but, yeah, maybe just a a a building example. Yeah. Yeah. Maybe a bank of two. So let's maybe start by, start with the story of the the biggest warehouse operator in the world called, Prologis. They have five thousand five hundred warehouses globally. And, in those warehouses, they have customers like Amazons and DHLs and and and other other major corporations, and and they are using our sensors, to, for example, preventive maintenance. So they are detecting, the technical rooms of those warehouses, if there are any leakages, if the machines are working properly, and and and so on. And and, maybe another example from the office, corporate office world is that, in many big cities, we have customers like Ernst and Young, Telefonica, New York Life, and and many others who are using our sensors to measure the utilization of those, offices and and, also making sure that the indoor air quality is up to the level that that where people feel feel comfortable. And and, this is obviously important after the, the COVID, where people started hybrid working and and, companies often unsure, how much space do they do they need for Absolutely. For their employees. And and, so we really have a lots of different use cases from many different customers. So these are only two. And and, in the Vycast open event that you referred to, we actually announced another major customer, which is Toyota. And and Toyota is now, piloting our solutions in their manufacturing facilities. So so it's kind of difficult for me to select only one case, which is showing the importance of the wire pass or or Haldean sensors in general because they are quite many. Yeah. Now but and absolutely, there's an opportunity to, talk about as many customers as possible. I congratulations on the Toyota win. I I didn't know that. Obviously, huge, potential. The the the technology I I from my understanding, one of the advantages of this solution, is that it's it's very robust, and, it sort of works out of the box, and, you can implement it pretty quickly. I think you were telling me about a a customer in New York, Manhattan, where you were asked to, do something and and, something to do with the chairman's phone. Yeah. Or whatever, which I thought was a good story. Maybe you wanna repeat that one. Yeah. It was it was really a well, of course, it's not funny when the chairman is calling that my phone is not working, but but but, it's kind of funny because, we had our sensors and gateways in that building for, I don't know, two years. And and suddenly, there was a problem that, the, the phones didn't work in the in the chairman's office. And and, at the moment, the assumption from the customer was that this may be due to the interference that is caused by the Gauteng gateways, which are They blamed they blame you, basically. Yeah. Exactly. And and and, in those gateways, we obviously have the SIM cards, from SI. And and this They blame us. Yeah. And and this is a phrase which something rolls downwards. I'll I'll use stuff rolls downwards, but it's another word, not stuff. But, yes, it, we often recognize that situation. Yeah. Yeah. So it's It's the SIM card. Yeah. Yes. And and and and, it was really showing the, the power and and the benefits of our partnership. So together with SI, we were quick quickly able to show that, actually, this is not the problem. This is not call causing the interference. These are the frequencies where we are operating. And just to make sure we localize the SIM card to just select that one specific US carrier so that, we could also, to make it bulletproof that there wouldn't be, interference. And, actually, the the the culprit of of this, or the root cause of this interference was a new installation of the internal five g five g base stations, that the customer had put there for their kind of to make sure that their phones work inside the building. And that was causing the interference, and that was the kind of the the root cause of that, that problem. But in any case, it was really great that we were able to very quickly show that, actually, there's nothing wrong with the gateway. If you still want further proof, you just disconnect, and you can see that the overall plan will continue after that. So so it was, it was really a good, good way to Often, I call the customer that how is the solution is working and it's not causing issues. Yeah. And, I I've got a support background and and and you often actually find out a lot more about about how people are using the technology when you do have, support issues. And often it very often it it it where the finger is first pointed is is not actually the problem, but they're very hard to diagnose. So we can get into, hardware, because a lot of this has to do with hardware expertise. But but for the moment, let's just park that. And you mentioned, MultiMZ and being able to switch networks, which gives me, you know, the opportunity to say, you know, we are partners, and we have a great partnership together. But, why did you choose, SI? You know, there's a lot of great telecom companies. No companies. There's a lot of great MB andOs. Yeah. So why why why did you why did you choose, SI, and what are the advantages from your perspective? Yeah. So many of if what most of our customers are multinational and global companies, and and it was really important for us to have a global connectivity, which is comes from a single vendor, and it's then easy to partner and easy to scale and easy to add more, sites, locations, countries as we grow together with our customers. So that was really one of the key reasons why we we, selected SI. And and like said like you said, it's been a good partnership, and and we, we are happy to continue our product, in the next years. And we obviously knew knew know the answer, but but I think this is our forty six, forty seventh podcast, and I asked the same question. I think I asked the same question on most of them. Not all have been, SI customers, but but everybody basically says the same thing, which is paraphrasing. It if you need a single product SKU for your own product, which you're selling to somebody else Mhmm. And you want to be able to deploy it anywhere in the world and get as near as possible a hundred percent connectivity, and we average ninety nine point five percent globally. We got customers in, I think it's a hundred and ninety countries. I think there's only three that we don't, and and there's three countries that we aren't allowed to go into. But sounds like there's a move room to Corral also for Halpea because we are now Yeah. Yeah. You follow us. Yeah. Well, that's a conversation for another time. But the but the point is that that the the often, people say, oh, well, you know, the cost of the solution is x. I'm gonna evaluate based on the cost of the solution, and that's the right thing. But if you actually look at the back end business process costs or the cost of of of manufacturing the cost, and if you have to insert different SIMs for different countries, the cost that you incur in supply chain, installation warranty, all your internal processes dwarfs by probably hundred the the the the the the the cost of the of the solution. And, and so you're another example of a company that says, look. I I can deploy anywhere in the world and, where there is a signal, and we'll get back onto multi route. But wherever the signal, I will deploy, and it's a managed service, and it just works, which is kind of the promise that you're making to your customers. We can deploy, and it and it and it works. You told me, when we did the prep, which was a while ago, because I've had a little delay in recording this one. But you also told me, I think it was a I may have got this wrong. It was a hospital use case, and and how quickly you can actually, implement. And and before you maybe recap that case study, one of the things about IoT I mean, we've got about eight hundred, nine hundred, customers. But one of the things clearly about IoT is that projects can take a long time to deploy and, for various reasons. There's a lot of complexities. But you had one thing that stood out to me when I looked at my notes is this I think it was a hospital case study and just how quickly you can put this wire pass gateway network in. Maybe you could just repeat that for the listeners. Yeah. Yeah. Our product strategy is really built around easy easy delivery, easy installation, easy scalability, and and so on. A lot of ease. So in fact, in that in this particular case, we had a customer in Puro in Norway. It's a ten story building, and and they wanted to have a solution for tracking, hospital beds and and also wheelchairs and some other, items. And and, our team, two guys spent there. They spent seven hours at the site. And in those seven hours, they equipped the whole hospital with our wire pass asset tracking solution, and, the data was flowing after seven hours. So Now now we we've got a hit pause here because that's the quickest that that that I've certainly, I've heard. Heard about a lot of use cases studies. And I think to understand it, I think it's key to understand this wire pass sensor, isn't it? Because it's very small, and you you're tracking things in hospital. Like, people lose wheelchairs. They lose they lose keys to the Beds. We need beds. Where are they? It's a very active process. So things tracking things, back to our earlier conversation. So the so how does that work? Does do you take a a bunch of WirePass sensors and do you just sort of stick them on devices? Yeah. Most often And they and they and they're active. Is that kind of it? Yeah. Most often, there is a two sided tape, but the the key to this quick installation is that, it's truly wireless and cableless. And it's not only the sensor that is small and wireless and easy to attach, but it's also the network. The locators, are in our case, they are energy harvesting. So we simply attach them next to the indoor lighting or close to the indoor lighting, and we strip out the, kind of activation tape, and they start communicating. So it's really fast and simple installation, not only the tags and the sensors, but also the infrastructure. So it's also cableless and wireless. And and and the one thing where you need power is then actually the gateway where you have the SI SIM, which is then aggregating all that data and sending sending that to the cloud. Right. So you only need power in the gateway. So you're you're taking the power from the light. What happens if it's dark? Does that mean the sensor can't can't communicate? Yeah. Well, if it's, permanently dark. So we only need, like, four hours a day of, the lights to be on. And if there are really dark areas like, technical rooms or or storage rooms, then we can use the USB to power those, those locations. USB. Okay. But in general, four hours of light, and hospitals are lit all the time. Buildings are often lit all the time, but but in general, four hours of of light means that you can it's a very small, thin device. You don't have to worry about the battery. You called it energy harvesting, And because the gateway is where where we are, and we need the battery, and we handle all of the, battery management and the the aggregation of the data and the uploading it into the cloud and giving a hundred percent connectivity globally. So that's sort of how the architecture works. I wanna do one more case study because I I just think that that Altium as a company has got lots of case studies. And as I said right at the beginning, I mean, I remember back in my Cisco days, which is going back a while now, we were talking about smart smart cities and the potential, and and, you know, we're still talking about it. Right? I think you are doing a lot of it building by building, but also customer by customer. And I think you've got, a big example of the, the the the Finnish post office, which is quite an innovative solution. Maybe you wanna describe that as well. Yeah. Yeah. Posti is one of our long time customers, at least five years, I think. And it's really one of the biggest ones in terms of number of sensors. At the moment, we are somewhere at one hundred forty thousand active sensors, and the number is growing, every month. And and where Posty is using our sensors is that, we all have, happy to purchase things online. And when they are, delivered, they usually end up in a smart box or or group of boxes in a grocery store or nearby location where you can pick them up. And and, our sensors are actually controlling those boxes. So it's in each and every box, there is a Houdian sensor, which is integrated into the lock of that box. So that's the that's the use case. And and, at the moment, it's, it's really working well. It's the number is is growing, but we are also looking at more kind of a rare but important use cases like what happens if there's a child who ends up inside that post delivery box? And we have had a couple of those cases here in Finland. Really? No. You hear these stories. So you you've had a couple of cases with children end up inside post these boxes. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So so, so what we are discussing is is that we would also make a detection if there's a person or some animal or some some form of form of a living thing that happens to go inside the box, then we are able to detect that. So Yeah. I'm sure. Kids think Luckily, that doesn't happen too often. No. But sure, kids would think it's pretty pretty funny to stick a stick a cat in there or something. Yeah. But but the point again, back to the business process, is the ability to have secure opening and closing, notifications to optimize the supply chain of a massively growing area. We had one of our guests on the, podcast about five podcasts ago was, Amazon, It's the first podcast they've done with a vendor, and and we do all of the, the automatic door opening, for, Amazon Prime, as well as the lockers, by the way. We also do all of the Amazon lockers, very similar case study. They didn't mention the, the children, but I'm sure it's happened to them. But, but but the ability, to optimize the the delivery and the notification of the data. It's really all about the data. It's to tell people where track your parcel, where it is, has it been collected, have you dropped it off? I mean, that's it's all about process optimization for them and and getting a hundred percent connectivity. It's sort of a long tail personalization, which we're gonna go on to talk about because because as we mentioned about IoT, IoT is, traditionally, you know, it it it's held held great promise, but it's not delivered. Funny enough, today, I was just looking at a industry analyst, report that came out today, and it talked about the time to, revenue for IoT companies has increased from, twenty three months to forty one months, which is not good, right, if you're an IoT company. But it reflects the the the difficulties people have implementing, IoT. And, you know, forty one months to revenue puts huge strain on, business models, MB and O business models, for obvious reasons. And you start drilling down as to why is it why is the time taken to implement, going longer and longer? And there are multiple reasons, but the silo proprietary silo net, nature of solutions is a huge factor. And the fact that, you know, an operator typically can give you eighty percent connectivity, maybe, but not a hundred. And none of your use cases work on eighty percent connectivity. MVNOs, multi MZ MVNOs can give you maybe ninety three, ninety five, and this is industry data percent productivity. But, you know, your use cases, you know, seven percent loss in connectivity massively affects the promise you give to your users. And then the the architecture, we won't go into it now, but the architecture to deliver a hundred percent connectivity is is a pretty different innovative architecture, as innovative as your wire pass is because you've got to be able to reroute the connection seamlessly, and it has to be done automated. Mhmm. And that's that's how we achieve ninety nine point five globally. But what that says is that that that actually, you know, right at the beginning of this podcast, we we talked about it's not just cellular. And you mentioned satellite. Yeah. And not everywhere has a satellite signal. If there is one, we connect. We don't care who satellite sorry. If there is a cellular signal, we connect. We don't care whose cellular it is. We like to say we don't have a dog in the fight. We're agnostic. But I know that you are you're wanting to go further and, into satellite Mhmm. And, what's called the r seventeen standard, the GSMA r seventeen. And you also, you believe that the device has to play hardware has to play a really big role in this. So maybe you can, talk about your views of of of how multiple radio access technologies will play a role in the future and the role of the device and how the device has to become much more intelligent. Yeah. Yeah. So this is really a good topic, and and and, as we all know, today, we have already multi radios in our hands. We have smartphones that are using multiple technologies, but those are really kind of use case dependent. So they use NFC when they are doing the payments or they use Bluetooth and connect it to your headset. And and, it's usually the user that is telling the device that, okay. Here's the thing I want you to do. Yep. And then the data device then select this, the the communication method. But in in IoT, there's no more normally no user, to interact with, and and the device itself has to be more clever and and make those decisions based on what is best available or the best technology at the time. In my Nokia based, that was called least cost routing, so optimizing the connectivity method based on the cost. But I think, today, it's more about ensuring that there is connectivity whether you are inside the building, out on the streets, out on the sea, and and so forth. And and there are from from the device perspective, it's about building multi radios and and supporting multiple connectivity technologies in in the gateway, for example, including release seventeen satellite connectivity when we eventually get there. At the moment, we are still in in four g in in our devices. But it's also about the kind of standardization, and we we talked about wire packs, for example, and they have seen this as well. It's kind of an extension to the Bluetooth standard if you look at it from the technology perspective. But at the same time, they have been now standardizing that. So it's also actually the first five g non cellular standard approved by Etsy. So standardization is important, so we get better support from the chipset vendors, and we have more, options when we build the products. But then for the device manufacturer, like Halcyon, then supporting multiple technologies in a clever, intelligent, unit is really a way to ensure that that connectivity is working everywhere. And then last but not least, obviously, the the connectivity provider and and how we work with SIs based in finalizing the package. So Yeah. That's a very good explanation. I I I, it gives me option to link to number one piece of collateral that's downloaded from our site is our every year is our predictions report. And we've been talking about multi rat and the the the device's role in selecting the connectivity. And this year, this year's predictions report goes, it is all about I think it's themed. It's all about the device. And and the point about it is that you you mentioned least cost routing, as the Americans call it, least cost routing. And, of course, one of the reasons that people do that is that they've done a contract for a fixed price, and then they try and optimize their profit by by switching it to networks. But your solution really has to be based on maximum provision of service, quality, resilience, and lowest latency, which is a completely different model. So you have to, and still have to provide it for a fixed price. Mhmm. And and in order to do that and then you could say, well, cellular is only thirteen percent of all connections. And you mentioned Bluetooth, BLE, mesh networks, I mean, Wi Fi. Cellular is only thirteen percent, and the percentage is getting smaller. And when satellite gets introduced, you know, it it would get even smaller again. So so our our view is that not only does the device need to be intelligent, but actually the switch needs to, be resident in the device. Today, the switch is in the cloud. Mhmm. We deliver you a hundred percent connectivity globally because we're using, you know, software, machine learning. We're we're using a a series of things to say, which network should should this device connect to now? It's long tail personalization, and you don't see the switches that we're making. You just get connectivity of switching in the background because we have, you know, so many we basically connect to any network. The the when it gets to, a multi RAT, then actually it's a little bit more than just the switch because you not only need to have a path to the, in this case, the satellites, but you basically got to treat the satellite as if it was just another MZ. And but then you've got to have the intelligence in the device to update the firmware settings, so that, that the the, modem or different modem even can connect to the satellite rather than, connect to cellular. And then and there's a lot of different firmware settings to make that all to be seamless. So we've, we talked a lot about SmartConnect, which is our offering, which is essentially a device centric switch, very small footprint, which is programmable by the by the customer like like yourself. You know? So you can use lightweight m to m in the cloud to set the rules, but then it is deployed and and runs on an individual device basis. And, essentially, you've turned the model upside down. Now you've got the device making the intelligence switching decision. So the device doesn't have to communicate to the cloud to actually switch. Now when the device doesn't have to communicate with the cloud, you are an then opt even further optimizing for service provision. But what you're also doing is building is you're going from connectivity to resiliency Mhmm. Because now you're saying you talked about self healing. Yeah. This this is exactly it. It says, look. It it it's heal it's healed itself, and you weren't even aware of it. It's chosen a different network because of the circumstances it finds itself in and what's what's happening. And then it will it will also self heal and change again dynamically. In order to do that self healing, that we believe firmly, the the the switch has to be driven from the device out, not from the cloud in or the operate or definitely not from the operator in. Yeah. But it has to be able to access those other two layers. It has to be able to access the cloud, and it has to access all the operators and satellite networks and all of the other radio access types. So that's we're basically pursuing the same vision, of, device centric, switching, which is frankly edge computing. Yes. But it's not a model that's common in IoT. It's been very much from the operator out, which is why which is why, you know, back to that survey, we still now in twenty twenty four, we're seeing lengthening implementation times and and, which is why I wanted to highlight when you said, you know, we put a hospital in in seven hours or or whatever. Now it was one use case with with with, you know, putting sensors in and and gateways. But even so, we have to, as an industry, solve that problem in order to deliver on the business promise of of tea. And and that's exactly the direction you're going in, isn't it? That's the we share that vision of of of the smart device because you are device people. Yeah. Yeah. We do very much so. And and and, I think, they actually tie pretty much tie together as these multi radios, context aware devices where AI can do the decision that should I use this or that connectivity method. And then, also the kind of slowness at the moment, slowness of implementations in IoT. So I think when we are solving these technical topics together, we are also helping our customers because they really don't want any silos. They don't want a IoT solution that is solving only one specific problem, of their business. Well, obviously, good. It's good that it does that. But if they have a thousand problems and you need to build a different IoT solution to build, solve each of them, you have, suddenly, one thousand different IoT solutions in your IT, and that's not really, sustainable. So I think, we together, Haldi and and and Esa, we can we can also help the customer, growth by solving these technical hurdles and building more resilient and and flexible products because then we are also able to have, support for multiple use cases, from the customer perspective. So so I I I kind of put these two together. So solving technical problems and then solving customer problems, they have the common, goal, and that is to have easier, faster, better IoT solutions. And we couldn't leave it on a better note than than that summary. So very exciting going forward. Thanks for the partnership. Congratulations on your Toyota announcement. That's a that's a big one. And, very exciting. And, you know, in percentage terms, it's gotta be at ninety nine point, many nines percentages of buildings that still aren't smart. Yes. I mean, opportunity here is so enormous, and it's not just buildings. We're talking things and trillions of things, and massive IoT. So, it is very, very exciting, but also challenging, and we have got to solve these problems. So, Yanno, I'm gonna leave it there. Thanks so much, for your time and being on the IoT, leaders podcast, and no doubt we'll, we'll talk again soon. But but thanks for joining us today and great podcast. Thank you, Nick. Thank you.